From: Ed Wilson (ewilson_esi@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Nov 19 2002 - 21:41:13 EET
I would also note that I have seen a SLS Vanguard HS with figures of 15-20x in speed when doing multiple parts and the warm up and cool down on this was only 3-4 hours. Keep in mind there is no support structure at all with SLS. I agree below if you change the layers to .005 on a FDM then something has got to give and this would be even more speed. And doesn't the water works require an ultrasonic tank running at 240amp?. You can not put this next to the engineer’s desk. There are some additional facilities with SLS or SLA, but they are out weighed in my opinion by the amount of applications and throughput that can be achieved. The FDM system has its place, but comparing it to SLS or SLA in speed is not realistic.
As far as long term material stability I would say Boeing using SLS for direct manufacturing would say it all.
Have a nice Day!
Kiran Shastry <kiranshastry251@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
Dear Jerry,
1. The 0.005 " slice is going to make your FDM still
slower, you forgot to mention that. By the way, May I
know any technical reson for not doing this for so
many years back.
2. I have seen a Maxum user melting Waterworks for
more than 12 hours. No SLA/SLS takes 12 hours to
remove supports.
3. Can I know what is the min slice possible on your
old FDM-2000 ?
4. Please let me know a customer buying 3 Titans, who
wanted to buy SLA-7000 ? Instead I found many
automobile companies buying multiple (note pls)
SLA-7000 system.
5. Only future of Rapid Prototyping & manufacturing
will show the place of Stratasys ? 3D Systems, EOS are
you listening? These are the guys who are serious
about their business. Let them lead for you to follow.
6. Finally Mr. Jerry, do not think that I do not know
the merits of FDM process. I have studied most of the
processes in detail.
7. SLA/SLS users support me with figures of users of
these technologies in RP Service Bureau !
8. Finally, Stratasys I must accept you are clever
marketing guys, than manufacturing guys. You crossed
2000 mark ! Congrats ! (Average Price of USD 200K or
lower)
Bye,
Kiran
--- jlehr@stratasys.com wrote: > Dear Mr. Shastry:
>
> Stratasys has introduced a 0.005" slice for its
> Maxum, which has improved
> the accuracy and finish. Interestingly, the first
> thing a prospective
> customer or user does to validate accuracy claims is
> measuring all
> geometries (surface flatness, hole and pin
> diameters, straightness of thin
> walls, long wall sections, and longest distance
> between points)on a CMM.
> The FDM part, especially with the new 5 slice
> measure very well. Thin
> sections are not affected by humidity or light
> making FDM parts
> geometrically stable over months as well as years.
> Other systems in its
> product line will also be capable of the new higher
> accuracy/surface finish
> capability in the very near future. Other
> improvements have been made in
> down facing surfaces (support to build boundaries)
> to where they are as good
> a up-facing surfaces.
>
> With regards to speed, it all depends on how you
> classify speed. Pure
> machine build speed is, hands-down, the best with
> the SLA 7000. However,
> most people consider speed on how fast a part can be
> in the hands of the
> requestor (from .stl to delivery of a part). With
> the FDM process there is
> no need to cure a part to harden it. With the FDM
> process there is no need
> to go through long system heat ups and cool downs.
> When the part is done,
> it can be removed from the system and supports
> immediately can be taken off.
> Further improvements have been made in support
> structure build strategies to
> reduce the amount of material used thus improving
> speed. Finally, a "sparse
> fill" techniques can be implemented, especially on
> thick-walled parts, to
> reduce the amount of material used thus, again,
> improving speed. The
> internal filling lattice can be defined by the
> operator.
>
> Price performance is another measure a lot of people
> consider. You might
> want to consider that three Titans can be purchased
> for less that one SLA
> 7000. You might want to consider what it will cost
> to create a facility to
> run the SLA of SLS system. The FDM system run in an
> office environment.
>
> The bottom line is that every RP sytem in the market
> place does have its
> strengths and weaknesses. I do hope this gives you a
> better picture on some
> of the merits of the FDM process.
>
> If you would like to further discuss some of the new
> features that can be
> found in the FDM process, please contact Andrew
> Tsui, Asia Manager for
> Stratasys and ATSUI@STRATASYS.COM.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jerry Lehr
> Central Region Manager
> Stratasys, Inc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kiran Shastry
> [mailto:kiranshastry251@yahoo.co.in]
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 7:43 AM
> To: JB Ventures BV
> Cc: RPML
> Subject: Re: Stratasys - SPT - Slow Prototyping
>
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> This is not Monday morning feelings.
>
> You said it, you slow machine has to run
> continously.
> But this is surprising SLS customers happy with FDM
> parts ?
>
> Can somebody tell me any contribution from FDM in
> last
> 2 years in increasing accuracy/finish etc ? In
> discrete terms.
>
>
>
> --- JB Ventures BV wrote: >
> Your
> message is clear Kiran.
> >
> > We run a FDM Titan (PolyCarbonate) machine for
> > service in Europe and is running almost
> > continiously. With your opinion in mind, guess the
> > former SLS customers for wich we are building
> parts
> > for the last half year must be all complete fools!
>
> >
> > Should your reply be taken seriously of has it
> > somewhat to do with your monday-mornin-feelings?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kiran Shastry
> > To: rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi
> > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 7:01 PM
> > Subject: Stratasys - SPT - Slow Prototyping
> >
> >
> > List,
> > Saw a lot of mails on FDM & slowness etc.
> >
> > I do not know how long this Glue making like
> > technology will survive. I hope till the the
> time
> > they
> > find new customers everytime ?
> >
> > If real comparison with SLA/SLS with FDM wanted,
> > then
> > ask users of both the techology. For only FDM
> > users,
> > it is definitely great machine.
> >
> > For me Stratasys is just imitating 3D Systems,
> all
> > their news article, etc. This is the company
> which
> > talks about % all the time, everything put in %,
> > looks
> > good. FDM Quantum is 50 % faster, Maxum is 50 %
> > faster
> > than Quantum, etc. Just recently they talked
> abot
> > high
> > resolution wire or so, without mentioning any
> > dimensions.
> >
> > Kiran Shastry
> > Singapore
> >
> >
> >
>
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Ed Wilson
ESI, Inc.
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