From: Paul (paulb@laserrepro.com)
Date: Sat Oct 05 2002 - 04:23:50 EEST
David,
Very nicely said. You obviously have alot of knowledge on this subject
matter. Anytime you would like to learn more or even tour a service bureau,
our door is open. We need more articles such as yours in as many magazines
as possible that are not related to RP. Thanks!
Best Regards,
Paul Bordner II VP of Operations Laser Reproductions 501 Morrison Rd Suite
101 Gahanna, Ohio 43230 phone 614.470.6905 fax 614.470.6907 mobile
614.206.0436 www.laserrepro.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dobrin" <david@b2banalysts.com>
To: <cwho@lgmmodel.com>; <rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi>
Cc: <dduffy@cio.com>; <rpastore@cio.com>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: Article in CIO magazine
> Thanks for the help with this. I am myself a stickler for accuracy and
> always want to make sure that I get everything correct, so I appreciate
this
> e-mail, whatever its combustion temperature, very much.
>
> The events described in the article were accurately described. The
> terminology was the terminology that was used to me by people who are in a
> position to know, so I didn't question it.
>
> STL is often used as a generic abbreviation for stereolithography (check
the
> Internet), but I agree that it is only in the context of a file format. I
> should probably have used SLA or rapid prototyping machine. I think what
> happened is that I got caught up in the question of whether we can
generate
> an STL file, and if so, how. For me, an STL machine was therefore one that
> can print an STL file.
>
> In my own defense, I might argue that my usage was not so much incorrect
as
> unidiomatic. Neither, however, meets the ideal that you and I both have
for
> any article. Thanks for the catch.
>
> As far as the more substantive comments, let me take up the science
fiction
> question first. I have had a good relationship with the people at
> IBM/Dassault for several years. When we first bruited the question of
taking
> a shoe design in 2-D and printing it out on an SLA machine, they were so
> willing to persuade me of their capabilities in this area that they set up
a
> 2-hour conference call with a Dassault technical expert. For simplicity's
> sake, I used AutoCAD as an example, presented him with the problem, and
let
> him noodle about it. He said that they do in fact have programs to convert
> multiple 2D views to a single 3-D. He said that theoretically, the
drawings
> should convert perfectly, but that slight differences in specifications
> among the views might require some manual labor in order to get a single,
> consistent 3-D view. The tweaking is really just reconciling these slight
> differences.
>
> They were willing to do a demo (2D-->3D) for us on our 2-D AutoCAD
sketches,
> but (as you saw), we couldn't even get 2D drawings of a shoe. If what they
> told me is science fiction, well, I was snookered. But I was not
credulous.
> I spent a lot of time trying to understand exactly how this was done, and
> what he told me was detailed and consistent. If it were to turn out that
you
> were wrong and that Catia can in fact do what Dassault/IBM says it can do,
> don't you think you should reconsider the question of whether the article
> belongs in People rather than CIO?
>
> As far as the AutoCAD for the Mac is concerned, that may have been a
little
> fey on my part, or I may have just missed the audience's capabilities. I
> wanted to convey our thought processes, and since both the CIO and I think
> in terms of 2D or 3D and think of AutoCAD as the generic 2D drawing
program
> (and yes, I know it has 3D capabilities), I just used that as a stand-in
for
> any old 2D program. I figured my audience would not know or care whether
it
> was AutoCAD or some other 2D program that the designers were(n't) using
over
> there.
>
> AutoCAD on the Mac has had a checkered history. (See, for instance,
> www.architecturalcadd.com/autocadmac.html, which just pops up on Google,
> when I put in AutoCAD, Mac into the search engine.) But it is surely
> incorrect to say that no AutoCAD product has ever run on a Mac.
>
> You also say that my description of the rapid prototyping process is
> incorrect. That may be. The (color) shoe that was plopped on the CEO's
desk
> was made by a Z corporation machine, I believe. The explanation of how
these
> machines worked was given to me by people at 3D Systems. I may indeed have
> missed some nuances in the way various different machines work. All I can
> say is that I was abetted by Dassault, who told me that they could output
> the finished file to any of the rapid prototyping machines and that the
> capabilities were roughly similar.
>
> Naturally, I would love to learn what those nuances are; if you feel you
> have the time to educate me, rather than scorch me, please feel free to
give
> me a call any time.
>
> Thanks, by the way, for appreciating some of my nuances, even as I missed
> some of yours. I was indeed hoping to suggest that there may be something
> problematic about the labor practices (and customs practices) in China.
But
> remember, in this case, nobody died, and whatever the cruelty and
injustice
> to factory workers in China, it would have to be pretty terrible even to
> come close to matching what happened to the freed slaves in our own
country
> 100 years ago. In my story, nobody dies, and that's part of the point,
too.
>
> It's interesting that you accuse me of being a Luddite. Remember, I'm the
> guy who suggested using this technology in the first place. If I had
> succeeded, and if the poor Chinese whose jobs I was trying to take away
had
> been able to get to me, I would have been one of the first targets.
>
> Thanks for cc'ing me on the note.
>
>
> David N. Dobrin, Ph.D.
> President,
> B2B Analysts, Inc.
> 617 497 6399
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Overy [mailto:cwho@lgmmodel.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 4:09 PM
> To: rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi
> Cc: david@b2banalysts.com; dduffy@cio.com
> Subject: RE: Article in CIO magazine
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> whoosh -- hear that flame comming at you....
>
> Nice article except for the factual errors! I caught at least two.
>
> "who has so far outperformed a stereolithography (STL) machine. Have you
> ever seen one of these? It can take a virtual 3-D image from a software
> package such as Catia and put out a colored 3-D model made of plastic. The
> STL machine divides the 3-D image into thin layers and makes the model by
> laser printing layer after layer of plastic"
>
> - Not a very accurate description of any RP process that I have seen. It
> seems to be an amalgam of the Z Corp process (color), Stratasys (layers of
> plastic) , and 3D Systems SLA. Also, since when was the class of machines
> abbreviated with the file extension? This laxity maybe OK for casual
> journalism but it makes me treat the rest of the article as just that.
Not
> very well researched or thought out.
>
> "AutoCad and its myriad competitors were surely being used on all those
Macs
> over in design. "
> Again, to my knowledge, no AutoCad product has ever run on a Mac and not
> many direct competitors in 3D product design are there either.
>
> Next, can you really, "feed 2-D images into Catia and get an exact
rendering
> without too much manual tweaking" and if so what does a "rendering" have
to
> do with a watertight 3D polygon mesh export. If Catia can really create a
> good 3D model from 2D hand sketches without "too much" human intervention,
> then this is an achievement that I have not heard about. Personally I
doubt
> it, and it is this sort of statement that is particularly irritating. It
> over promises the integration of technology in the design process as a
> whole. Further it implies that the RP process get blamed when things
break
> down. If the authors statement is supposed to be that good people are
> needed in the design process, there is no debate bu there are more
accurate
> ways to convey this obvious truth.
>
> Finally, I think that the RP sales people need to find out who this shoe
> company is and leave their card. As the article points out, John Henry
DIED
> in the process of trying to beat the steam drill. I thought shoe
companies
> already had enough bad press for inspiring that sort of work environment
in
> their subcontractors.
>
> This article would have been OK if it had been in "People" or perhaps even
> "Gardening News" but in a zine presumably directed at Chief Information
> Officers of big companies is should try to get the technology parts close
to
> correct. I have included the editor and writer in this email, perhaps they
> would care to respond to the list. It certainly was an amusing read but
I
> have more than enough anti-technology drivel from neo-luddites in the
> architectural community to last me to the end of this year. Next year,
> we'll see...
> Best wishes to all
>
> Charles
> Dir of Eng.
> LGM
> www.lgmmodel.com,
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi [mailto:owner-rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi]On
> Behalf Of Todd Grimm
> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:21 PM
> To: rp-ml@rapid.lpt.fi
> Subject: Article in CIO magazine
>
>
> Sometimes it takes an outsider to clearly see what the RP industry faces
> as competitive pressures. In a slightly humorous article, CIO magazine
> illustrates the challenges that RP and collaboration tools face. Hope
> you enjoy it.
>
> http://www.cio.com/archive/100102/worldview.html
>
>
> Todd Grimm
> 3028 Beth Ct.
> Edgewood, KY 41017
> Phone: (859) 331-5340
> Fax: (859) 331-5342
> Cell: (859) 240-0574
> Email: tgrimm1@insightbb.com
>
>
>
> For more information about the rp-ml, see http://rapid.lpt.fi/rp-ml/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For more information about the rp-ml, see http://rapid.lpt.fi/rp-ml/
>
For more information about the rp-ml, see http://rapid.lpt.fi/rp-ml/
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