RE: Mickey Mouse

From: Anshuman Razdan (razdan@gloo3d.com)
Date: Tue Feb 20 2001 - 06:44:26 EET


That's all and fine but any two bit (no pun intended) programmer can delete
that information. The idea of watermarks is that in theory they cannot be
destroyed or tampered with. Infact you don't need any thing else to
accomplish what you are asking for since the first line of the ASCII and
first 80 bytes of binary STL file are reserved for file information (other
than the SOLID key word)....

AR

Dr Anshuman Razdan,
Director PRISM
MC 5906, GWC 574
Arizona State University
Tempe AZ 85287
http://prism.asu.edu/~razdan
480 965 0483 (Tina)

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steven Adler ( A3DM ) [mailto:adler@a3dm.com]
>> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 6:33 PM
>> To: rp-ml@bart.lpt.fi; razdan@gloo3d.com
>> Subject: Re: Mickey Mouse
>>
>>
>> I was thinking more of a marker in the STL file, like those
>> now being used
>> to denote STL Color. A single bit that would prompt an
>> advisory that you are
>> about to infringe on a copyright if reproduced without
>> authorization. like
>> the symbol used in text, At this juncture it is a "free for
>> all" with 3D
>> Dimensional Digital Objects being traded like music and
>> audio content on the
>> Web without royalty.......
>>
>> Food for thought if StL is to remain the common denominator
>> across platforms
>> and output devices.
>>
>> Steven Adler CEO
>> Automated 3D Modeling
>> adler@a3dm.com
>> www.a3dm.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Anshuman Razdan" <razdan@gloo3d.com>
>> To: "'Steven Adler'" <adler@a3dm.com>; <rp-ml@bart.lpt.fi>;
>> "'Paul Finelt -
>> Optimum Online'" <finelt@optonline.net>
>> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 10:40 PM
>> Subject: RE: Mickey Mouse
>>
>>
>> > Steve et al.
>> > There is no robust method to watermarking STL files.
>> Unlike 2D Images
>> where
>> > lower bits can be used to embed a signal without
>> destroying the image, in
>> 3D
>> > a) one loses accuracy and b) the problem is that almost all of the
>> > watermarking techniques can be defeated by retriangulation.
>> >
>> > 3D as you know has geometry and topology where as 2D
>> images have implied
>> > topology (i.e. i-1,j the pixel will be next to i,j pixel) and just
>> geometry
>> > (intensity, color, etc.). So a 3D object (for lack of a
>> better term) can
>> be
>> > retriangulated without changing the geometry of the object
>> i.e. changing
>> the
>> > topology. For example lets say u have a rectangle (in 3D
>> altho a rectangle
>> > is planar and 2Dish but bear with me for a moment). Now it has one
>> diagonal
>> > connoted such that there are two triangles. Now one can
>> just switch the
>> > diagonal, maintain the same geometry and alter the topology.
>> >
>> > Watermarking algorithms rely on topology and few of them
>> are robust when
>> it
>> > comes to scaling, rotation (etc. transformations) not
>> breaking them. There
>> > have been some papers (and great interest) in this area
>> but the final word
>> > has not been written yet.
>> >
>> > AR
>> > Dr Anshuman Razdan,
>> > Director PRISM
>> > MC 5906, GWC 574
>> > Arizona State University
>> > Tempe AZ 85287
>> > http://prism.asu.edu/~razdan
>> > 480 965 0483 (Tina)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: owner-rp-ml@ltk.hut.fi
>> > >> [mailto:owner-rp-ml@ltk.hut.fi]On Behalf Of
>> > >> Steven Adler
>> > >> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 2:52 PM
>> > >> To: rp-ml@bart.lpt.fi; Paul Finelt - Optimum Online
>> > >> Subject: Re: Mickey Mouse
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Thank you Paul...... I was thinking the same thing. Is there
>> > >> a method to
>> > >> "watermark" or "copyright" an STL file......?
>> > >>
>> > >> Why not incorporate a disclosure statement on opening
>> > >> "watermarked" STL
>> > >> files advising copyrights.....?
>> > >>
>> > >> Steven Adler CEO
>> > >> Automated 3D Modeling
>> > >> adler@a3dm.com
>> > >> www.a3dm.com
>> > >> ----- Original Message -----
>> > >> From: "Paul Finelt - Optimum Online" <finelt@optonline.net>
>> > >> To: <A.gerrits@ind.tno.nl>; <rp-ml@bart.lpt.fi>
>> > >> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 4:53 PM
>> > >> Subject: RE: Mickey Mouse
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> > Anyone supplying an STL of Mickey Mouse or any other
>> copywritten or
>> > >> > trademarked likeness of any character.....
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Don't send these things around. Disney and other
>> owners of these
>> > >> properties
>> > >> > will sue you or at least make your life miserable for a
>> > >> period of time.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Even if you think you're just using it for your own
>> > >> purposes. These are
>> > >> > commercial entities with substantial value. The owners of
>> > >> these guys are
>> > >> > serious.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > I know some people that have found out the hard way.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: owner-rp-ml@ltk.hut.fi
>> > [mailto:owner-rp-ml@ltk.hut.fi]On Behalf Of
>> > > A.gerrits@ind.tno.nl
>> > > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:49 AM
>> > > To: rp-ml@ltk.hut.fi
>> > > Subject: Mickey Mouse
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear rapid people,
>> > >
>> > > Who has an STL file of Mickey ??
>> > > We want to thank a good relation who would go crazy with a nice
>> prototype.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks in advance for your help.
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > >
>> > > Anton Gerrits
>> > >
>> > > TNO Industrial Technology
>> > > Department Industrial Prototyping
>> > > De Rondom 1, P.O. Box 6235, 5600 HE Eindhoven (The
>> > > Netherlands)
>> > > Telephone (+31) 040-26 50 608, fax (+31) 040-26 50 678
>> > > Mobile (+31) 06-23 11 53 97
>> > > E-mail a.gerrits@ind.tno.nl <mailto:a.gerrits@ind.tno.nl>
>> > > Look also at
>> > >
>> http://www.ind.tno.nl/en/productiondevelopment/prototyping/index.html
>> > >
>> <http://www.ind.tno.nl/en/productiondevelopment/prototyping/i
>> ndex.html>
>> > >
>> > > For more information about the rp-ml, see
>> http://ltk.hut.fi/rp-ml/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > For more information about the rp-ml, see
>> http://ltk.hut.fi/rp-ml/
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > For more information about the rp-ml, see http://ltk.hut.fi/rp-ml/
>> >
>> >
>>

For more information about the rp-ml, see http://ltk.hut.fi/rp-ml/



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