Dear RP-ML,
Mike Doty
>
> We would all be better off to drop English as an international language and replace it Esperanto, not
just in this forum, but in scientific and technological discussion
everywhere. english is a very poor,
irrational language (i.e. "kluged together, or should that be kloojed).
Perhaps it would be interesting for you to read Luis Borges
autobiographical essay. He discusses English as a second language. One
interesting and anecdotal story he told was how surprised he was when
first visiting the United States. There he found brick layers and
plumbers speaking the language of Shakespeare. Prior to this he had
only experienced English in lectures and erudite discussions as well as
reading again and again the plays of Shakespeare.He found the cadence
and syntax of the common man at work initially to be repulsive. Later he
came to enjoy it. Ah... The sacred and the profane.
English is difficult to learn and has many irrational qualities. There
are rules and then there are exceptions to those rules and those
exceptions must be memorized. But, I find english to be relatively
precise. It is a simple and stream lined language, the distillation of
many tongues and experiences. It is this simplicity that makes it so
amorphous(frustrating) and able to envelope so many variations.
If one takes german as an alternate example. It is a very precise and
rule based language. It shares much in common with latin and (reported
by an Indian friend of mine) even more in common with ancient Hindi.
This precision would seem to bode well for the use of German as the
lingua franca of technical description. But it's not the lingua franca.
The reasons are political (the 2nd world war) and also have to do with
the simplicity of english. (On top of that, as Mark Twain wrote, "I
would rather decline 2 german beers than one german noun").
English is a beautiful language. These exceptions are so human.
OK, so much for that. As to grammatical error, spelling mistakes and on,
I've tried so hard to stay out of the fray and not comment. But I find
that I must. IMHO and for what it is worth, the net is a conversation,
it is informal and it flows. Many times the incorrect use of language
sparks an idea.
Artists, undisciplined wretches that they are, know this one simple
rule. It is their right to misunderstand and to misinterpret the matter
of the world. Many artists have claimed science as an inspiration in
their work. When you querry their knowledge of science it is quickly
evident that they are nourishing fantasies and misrepresentations about
what science is, based upon "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" or upon James
Gleick's "Chaos". One rolls their eyes and then examines the work: such
beauty and poetic epiphany out of such misunderstanding! Go figure.
There is an egalatarian nature to the web which allows for this slop in
language. There are many, who may lack disciplined language skills, who
have much to contribute. There are also many who can barely find the
time to contribute to the list but have valueable information to relay.
Karl's post has given me much to think of and as far as I'm concerned he
can mispell until the cows come home. Keep a postin'!! The language of a
person is reflective of that person only, not their city, state,
country, institution, ethnicity, sexuality, and on. Shall we get back to
the business of rp and lay this thread to rest?
-- michael rees http://www.sound.net/~zedand00/ 1212 w 8th St. Bldg B #2, KC, Mo 64101 816 753 3020 v 816 753 1542 f
attached mail follows:
Dear RP-ML,
Mike Doty
>
> We would all be better off to drop English as an international language and replace it Esperanto, not just in this forum, but in scientific and technological discussion everywhere. english is a very poor, irrational language (i.e. "kluged together, or should that be kloojed).
Perhaps it would be interesting for you to read Luis Borges
autobiographical essay. He discusses English as a second language. One
interesting and anecdotal story he told was how surprised he was when
first visiting the United States. There he found brick layers and
plumbers speaking the language of Shakespeare. Prior to this he had
only experienced English in lectures and erudite discussions as well as
reading again and again the plays of Shakespeare.He found the cadence
and syntax of the common man at work initially to be repulsive. Later he
came to enjoy it. Ah... The sacred and the profane.
English is difficult to learn and has many irrational qualities. There
are rules and then there are exceptions to those rules and those
exceptions must be memorized. But, I find english to be relatively
precise. It is a simple and stream lined language, the distillation of
many tongues and experiences. It is this simplicity that makes it so
amorphous(frustrating) and able to envelope so many variations.
If one takes german as an alternate example. It is a very precise and
rule based language. It shares much in common with latin and (reported
by an Indian friend of mine) even more in common with ancient Hindi.
This precision would seem to bode well for the use of German as the
lingua franca of technical description. But it's not the lingua franca.
The reasons are political (the 2nd world war) and also have to do with
the simplicity of english. (On top of that, as Mark Twain wrote, "I
would rather decline 2 german beers than one german noun").
English is a beautiful language. These exceptions are so human.
OK, so much for that. As to grammatical error, spelling mistakes and on,
I've tried so hard to stay out of the fray and not comment. But I find
that I must. IMHO and for what it is worth, the net is a conversation,
it is informal and it flows. Many times the incorrect use of language
sparks an idea.
Artists, undisciplined wretches that they are, know this one simple
rule. It is their right to misunderstand and to misinterpret the matter
of the world. Many artists have claimed science as an inspiration in
their work. When you querry their knowledge of science it is quickly
evident that they are nourishing fantasies and misrepresentations about
what science is, based upon "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" or upon James
Gleick's "Chaos". One rolls their eyes and then examines the work: such
beauty and poetic epiphany out of such misunderstanding! Go figure.
There is an egalatarian nature to the web which allows for this slop in
language. There are many, who may lack disciplined language skills, who
have much to contribute. There are many also who can barely find the
time to contribute to the list but have valueable information to relay.
Karl's post has given me much to think of and as far as I'm concerned he
can mispell until the cows come home. Keep a postin'!! The language of a
person is reflective of that person only, not their city, state,
country, institution, ethnicity, sexuality, and on. Shall we get back to
the business of rp and lay this thread to rest?
-- michael rees http://www.sound.net/~zedand00/ 1212 w 8th St. Bldg B #2, KC, Mo 64101 816 753 3020 v 816 753 1542 f
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